Re: Alfa return... (Luca)

[Joe Elliott <jee@domain.elided>]

I think Luca hit the nail on the head with that post.  I saved it to 
my hard drive under "Europeans' impressions of America that are 
totally hilarious but true" along with some Alfa Digest clippings 
from years past.  The logic is brilliant: this car won the the WORLD 
RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP, how can you not know what it is?  Well, part of 
it certainly has to do with Luca's correct observation that the USA 
is in a world of its own and we have our own bizarre forms of 
motorsport.  However, what Luca and others may not realize is that 
motorsports are not mainstream in the USA like in Europe.  In Europe, 
everyone knows Ferrari and probably has some clue what's going on in 
F1 or the WRC just like they'd be familiar with pro soccer.  In the 
USA, the average individual's knowledge/interest in sports is limited 
to baseball, football, basketball, etc. NASCAR is beginning to change 
that, but in general motorsports and car enthusiasm in general are 
looked down upon as hick activities.  Luca, you'll have a hard time 
believing this, but I knew people in high school who didn't 
understand what a (road course) race track was!  These were 
intellectual people who grew up not giving a damn about racing, but 
the mainstream exposure in the USA was such that they thought all the 
world's race courses were ovals!!!  To them, all forms of motorsport 
were, quite literally, "going around in circles."  Of course, there 
is a growing number of auto "enthusiasts" whose vehicle of choice is 
the Asian economy car, but for the most part when Americans think of 
car enthusiasts they think of the rednecks on the cover of the Summit 
Racing catalog (American pickup truck  or sedan from the '50s or 
'60s, 7L side-valve V8, no intention of going around corners or 
stopping).  When I was in high school, if say, an Honor Society 
meeting ran late and I said "Damn, this meeting running late is 
cutting into my car-fixin' time" the response I usually got was "Gee 
Joe, that was a pretty redneck thing to say."  As a "car guy" in SW 
Ohio, it was assumed that I was either a V8-and-live-axle-hick or a 
FWD-and-bodykit-that-cost-more-than-my-car rice-burning punk. 
Basically, (as is evident by our cars and our limited interest in 
racing) Americans don't give a damn about automobiles or driving, 
aside from believing in a God-given right to own a car and buy cheap 
fuel.  I've been ranting for a while here, but I think that sentence 
should eliminate any confusion that Luca and other Europeans might 
have about American culture and the American car market.  I think 
this off-topic rant is about done now, but there was one part of 
Luca's post that really tickled me: "ie the very famous Dainese 
motorcycle leather brand, more common than Levi's here."  Some of you 
that were in Nashville might remember that I brought my (dad's) 
Dainese Ergon helmet (that was purchased because the magazines rated 
it as among the safest helmets available) and our very own Russ Neely 
wouldn't let me wear it on the track because it lacked a USA 
Department of Transportation sticker!  (Yes, yes, I know that that's 
what the AROC rules called for, but when even the Alfa club is lost 
in the "other world" that is the USA, perhaps we shouldn't be so 
hopeful about Italian cars ever being successful here....)

Just my 40 lira (ok, maybe 80),
Joe Elliott <--decided today to build a car that runs on used cooking oil

>Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 16:03:36 +0200
>From: Luca <nodoubt@domain.elided>
>Subject: Re:
>
>At Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:17:35 EDT Ed at Caribou wrote:
>
> >What did I tell you??? Check the Forum archives and you'll see about 6
>months
> >or so ago we had an "Alfa returns" thread where I posted that it will never
> >happen. After 21 years of dealing with the Italians, I told you all that the
> >course of action they would follow would first be to say "we'll be back
>right
> >away", then it will be "we need to get the 1993 models ready for the US",
> >then it will be "we need until the 1994 or 1995 model year to make sure
> >everything is okay" (ALL of which has ALREADY happened!) and then it will be
> >"we really don't know when, but it's still on the table" (seems like where
>we
> >are at now) followed by "right now we have more important thing to do, it's
> >on the back-burner" finally followed by lack of any further information.
> >Face it folks... they ain't coming back.
>
>Well, this time I feel I'd better jump on this wagon and write down
>my own opinion. I feel I've to.
>First thing to say, it ain't related to the "dealing w/ italian" matter.
>This just because there's no more "origin nation" for anything, due to
>market globalization. The companies are internationals, they got
>business alliances all over the world. FIAT, just to bring it in, ie,
>is theorically italian, it's partially owned (20%) by yankies (GM),
>it surely got alliances with many other companies, there are Fiat
>factorie everywhere, in latin america there were/are Fiats & Alfas that
>I've never seen or that have never been sold here.
>So how can you say that's all about dealing w/ Italians?? When some
>of the company strategies managers are japanese, french, spanish,
>americans?
>When neither the hand-workers are 100% italians ??
>I can even buy Honda motorcycles MADE IN ITALY by italian hands!!!
>Go figure!
>Second thing: I've been reading on this digest the most incredible amount
>of reasons why Alfa left, Alfa will come back, Fiat's crap, Fiat is good,
>people knowing Alfa, people ignoring Alfas... I've heard whatever.
>Well, the biggest amount of digesti is from USA, and I've read enough
>words to realize the problem is THERE and not here.
>USA is the only market missing Italian cars. IT also misses many
>other European brands (we were carrying an american friend in a Peugeot
>206 while I was down in Buenos Aires, and this man wondered with which
>kind of car we were carrying him around... hell that car is the current
>WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP champion.... how can't you know it!!).
>USA is a world by itself. You got kind of races (ie Nascar) that
>NOBODY in the planet enjoy. You got motor show and requirements
>matching no country around. You barely know the GP motorcycle races (the
>Formula 1 of motorcycles), you care more about AMA superbike (ignored
>by the rest of the planet) than WORLD SUPERBIKE. If you got rally
>races it's something no other country knows about. You managed to get
>Formula1 last year, but it's a miracle and I bet people prefer the
>crash-test-nascar rahter than F1.
>It's a different world, different standards!
>You have or have had tenth of car brands (Oldsmobile, Chevy, Studebacker,
>
>GM, Lincoln, Pontiac and so on) nobody (Abroad) wants, nobody likes,
>nobody needs, nobody dreams of.  You're stuck in an incredbile speed
>limits spiderweb, full of zero tolerance cops... you can't enjoy anys
>sport/fast car...but you buy 'em and your market is full of big engine,
>incredible displacements, endless tourque you can afford just because you
>produce your own gasoline and it costs 1/4 of the price we pay elsewhere.
>The few american cars sold around are made by the foreign division
>of your own companies (Ford-Germany... yes, cuz for me Ford is German,
>Opel, the german Chevrolet building small Corsas e Astra rather than
>glorious oversized Impalas & Bel Air).
>The only foreign markets you accept are cheap rice eaters (because
>japan is the only country that actually really invaded USA with
>their products... and you buy 'em all!) or OVERPRICED european
>cars like Ferrari, Porsches, Mercedes, Bmw.  And the poor customer
>wanting to own something that's not japanese nor american is stuck
>in a restricted market, with extremely high prices, with everybody
>thinking he's just a showing off arsehole.
>Sorry, but Mercedes here are one of the most comon cars.
>You can see as many Beemer as Alfas here, it's full of porsches,
>and the ferrari is also a sign of class, not a status symbol.
>We got small Fiats, we got thousands of industrial cars made by fiat
>and absolutely bullet proof (ie Fiat Fiorino, Fiat Marengo, Iveco
>Turbo Daily, Punto Van).
>Here a corvette is almost a grey import :-), nobody cares about it.
>The Viper has been a big hole in the water: absolutely unreliable,
>absolutely big, endless displacement and almost zero tecnology.
>For those money I'd rather get a Porsche or a Jaguar XKR.
>The very sole american company really doing well is Chrysler.
>In the older years it was just badging Talbot & Simca (I owned
>a Horizon 1.1 and a 1304 sedane), right now it's around with coupla
>sedanes and a minivan.  They got a chance to sell here with the
>minivan (world wide extended sickness, but we still do not get
>any ugly ASTROVAN -comics heroes' car??- lcuckly!) and with the
>Neon, the very 1st crysler trying to be European sized keeping
>it's own brand style.
>I could bring endless examplese about this (ie the very famous Dainese
>motorcycle leather brand, more common than Levi's here, almost like
>Prada/Valentino/Armani over there. Same for Ducati, so common in
>Italy and Germany I'm sick of waving at 'em down the road)......
>I believe it's not about Italians, nor about Europe. It isn't about
>japanese either, nor due to poor reliability italian cars can offer.
>If there's no alfas there, if there's no fiats, no Lancias, no Peugeots,
>not whatever you like and desire ... is just because USA refuses it!
>The consumers standards over there are too weird, to far away from
>world standards. I believe many companies prefer to ignore your
>market rather than going for unsecure investments trying to
>match your needs.
>
>I'll accept and discuss any opposite opinion. It's an intersting
>exchange of ideas. If this might fire up some flames or being
>rated "VERY OFF TOPIC" by the moderator, please reply off-digest.
>
>
>Luca, happy with what European market offers me.

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