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Re: <E28> 535i still running without key.. ongoing

Ron,
It does sound like a sticking relay!
Start by ordering Bentley E28 manual (www.rb.com or other sources).
On E30, there are two places to look for relays: the fuse box and right in
front of it/behind the driver side front wheel well where the three big
relays are housed: {main power, 02 sensor and fuel pump}. The main relay is
unique. The 02 and fuel pump are identical. If anything, I would suspect
the main relay. Check it out or go and buy a replacement from the dealer
since all three of them deserve to be retired on a 17year old car.
Most of the relays in the E30 fuse box are interchangeable. Dive in and
start swapping around. Sooner or later you will pull one that will keep
your car from starting. Swap it with another one and see if that makes any
difference.

alex f



|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           "Ron Jordan"     |
|         |           <ron@universalmin|
|         |           d.net>           |
|         |           Sent by:         |
|         |           owner-bmw@digest.|
|         |           net              |
|         |                            |
|         |                            |
|         |           06/25/02 03:23 PM|
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                              |
  |       To:       Alexander V. Fadeev/EMPL/TX/Verizon@VZNotes                                                  |
  |       cc:       <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>                                              |
  |       Subject:  <E28> 535i still running without key.. ongoing                                               |
  >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




Hello all,

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

Well, here is the continuing saga on the still running car.  In order to
get
it to shut down, I stalled it out in first and then to make sure my battery
didnt die overnight, I disconnected the battery.

I wish I had a diagram of the relay panel box under the dash to the left of
the steering wheel behind the computer.   then I could see if its a stuck
relay.

curious thing that leads me to think its a relay is as follows.

When the car has NORMAL starting conditions

Key in main off postion
forward one click and you get accessories
forward one more click and you get all power, plus start up gongs to put on
belts and check any warnings on the panel above the windshield in the
center
forward one more click and you engage the starter and it springs back to
previous position when you let go.  Same for everyone right?

How my car is now..

Key in main off position all power
Key forward one click to accessories all power
Key forward one more click to all power position, startup gongs engage.  ??
wierd huh?
Key forward one more.. starter engages.. didnt do that since car was
running

Now, if the actual switch on the inside the column was messed up you'd
think
the gongs wouldnt go off in the third key position since the car should
understand that its got all power.  The gongs should stay silent. Since
"all
power" and gongs get engaged in position 3 it leads me to think its a
problem
outside the switch.  cause the gongs get engaged everytime you turn the key
forward, even when the car is running.

So the next thing that makes me think its a stuck relay is, when I reattach
the battery, all the power is off, and the key turns it all on like normal,
but again as soon as you try to shut it off it doesnt.  So reasoning is, if
it
was a short then as soon as I reconnect the battery, I should have all
power,
but I dont.  So I think its a relay, since relays work as follows.  you
have
the main power circuit that runs thru it and is normally off (in this
case).
There is a second circuit that runs thru it that is built onto an
electomagnet.  When you hit the switch it creates a circuit in the
electomagnet, which then attracts the the contact for the main power
circuit,
connecting the main circuit so power passes thru,.  Since you dont need
much
to make an electomagnet work, you can use a small switch, since you arent
passing a lot of amperage thru it.  But relays Jam, they get rusty inside,
or
get a buildup.. and then the switch either cant make it engage, or
disengage,
unless you drop all power to the main curcuit in most cases.

Since when I reattach the battery, it doenst renagage "all power" I think
power is stuck on a relay and when the circuit loses total power the relay
disengages, but not when the switch tries to make the relay disconnect the
main circuit.   Now if I could find out where and which relay it is, so I
can
test my theory, that would be great.

Anyone know?  again its an E28 85 535i

Thanks again..
Ron Jordan

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: [email protected]
  To: Ron Jordan
  Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected]
  Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:38 PM
  Subject: Re: <E28> 535i still running without key.. help


  "Ron Jordan" <[email protected]> wrote:
  >
  > Now to the problem.  Last night I took the car out for a drive, it
  started
  > fine, drove fine etc, until I pulled into a parking spot, switched the
  key to
  > the off position and found that the car was still running with power to
  all
  > the accessories. The steering locked, and such but the car wont shut
off.

  Ron,
  The last and only time I had this problem was with my old E30 ('89 325i
  with 200+K miles). Within days after getting that car back after getting
a
  jammed ignition switch replaced (you need to turn the ignition switch to
  get it out, but I could not turn it as it was jammed) I encountered
exactly
  the problem you describe. The problem was that the wrench had broken off
  the plastic clips that hold the ignition knob to the ignition switch. The
  knob is really what controls the ignition, the lock is just there to
  restrict access to the knob via the key. If the knob pulls/breaks off
from
  the lock it will remain in its current position regardless of what you
try
  to do with the key.
  Long story short I took off the plastic wheel column shroud to locate the
  knob and epoxy glued it back in place.

  > When I switched it back to power position, some of the startup warning
  gongs
  > came on as usual.  I tried several times to switch it back and forth
with
  the
  > same result.  Removed key, and car still running.

  After you stalled the car, could you restart it with the key? If not,
read
  above for the problem description.
  If the car did start with the key, the problem is in the wiring/relays
and
  may be related to whatever work had previously been done in the fuse box.

  HTH,
  alex f
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