Re: Whinning, What is it good for?

[Eric McCoy <emccoy@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

In the interests of preventing a flame war...

I.L. Eberhart wrote:
> At 09:38 PM 10/12/98 -0400, Eric McCoy wrote:
> >True.  But you could also take the statistics of, percentage-wise, how many
> >African-Americans are in jail, and support the assertion that all
> >A-Americans are criminals from birth.

> Low blow Mr. McCoy, interesting where you've pulled your comparison.
> We could start a whole thread on that issue, but it would not be
> appropriate to this forum.

No, it wouldn't.  However, I do think it's a fair comparison - using
statistics to form generalizations is pretty much the same no matter who
it's done to.  As it turns out, your message was addressing a somewhat
different issue.  You get credit (not given above) for advocating education
rather than higher insurance rates, fewer mistakes allowed before suspension
of driving privileges, etc.

Well, anyway, you opened up the floodgates with your black/Black reference. 
Yeah, I followed up on it, but you gotta take some of the blame.

> >It's a bad issue.  Dealers potentially lose out big-time if they let every
> >kid who wants to take an M3 for a spin do so.  But in the process, they're
> >unfairly discriminating against young drivers who *are* responsible and
> >interested in purchasing the car.

> You know, I didn't mention anything about dealers or car purchases, did I?
> You're addressing the wrong thread here my friend, please try to stay
> within THIS discussion.

If you'd quoted any text at all, it'd make it easier for me to know what you
were discussing.  Since the dealer-age-discrimination thread has been a
pretty big one recently and you seemed to be talking about age
discrimination, I made the jump.

> I spoke generally of statistics, and specifically with regard to younger
> drivers, of which I was once one.

Most of us were.

> I'm really more concerned about the FACT that many young drivers cause
> accidents that could potentially be a danger to myself, my family and my
> friends. 

OK.  Personally, that doesn't concern me, but I'm still in that age group,
so I'm probably a special case.  I worry more about drunk drivers, who seem
to be pretty widely distributed (in my experience).

> I realize that those within every age range are capable of, and
> do, cause accidents. I believe that it may  be simpler to concentrate on
> better driver education for new drivers rather than try to change the
> habbits of those that already have bad habbits. 

It would be simpler, certainly.  I'm not sure that it would be the best
road, since the average driver probably has a license for 40 years - you'd
be looking at about a generation and a half before you started to see
serious change.

Maybe that's the scale you're thinking on; I don't know.

> >Presumably because "black" is a physical characteristic rather than an
> >ethnicity (or race, or past national affiliation).  I'm not White, I'm
> >white.  And this is just me, but I don't care if you do call me White, or
> >irish, or That Fucking Asshole On His Cell Phone In The BMW Doing 120 Down
> >The Highway Because He's Been Fucking Spoiled Since Birth.

> You are incorrect Mr. McCoy, there is not a single African-American that I
> know who has "black" skin.

I've seen a few who are pretty dark skinned, though.  Perhaps "extremely
dark skinned in comparison with most Western Europeans" would be more
appropriate, but it's also much longer.

> True most are darker than you, but there are many that are just as fair in
> complextion as you are.

Yeah, I don't want to get into a race definition issue.  Your point is
mostly valid but doesn't address my point - the term "black" comes about
(incorrectly) because we Western Europeans labeled the ones we saw and
considered of that race.  North Africans were pretty much excluded, from
what I understand.

> If the term referred to the physical characteristic of darker skin, then
> there are many Asians, Hispanics, Italians, and Native Americans that would
> be called Black, likewise there are many African-Americans that should not
> be considered Black (according to YOUR definition). The term is used in
> place of the more accepted reference to the ethnic group known as
> African-Americans. And "A-Americans" is not an accepted abbreviation.

OK, what *is* an accepted abbreviation?  "AA" implies something bad,
"African-A's" sounds cheap and, IMO, emphasizes the wrong thing, "[Bb]lack"
is apparently a sticking point, "Afro-American" is racist...

I should've just cut-and-pasted.

> > Can't claim that - if you know better, you, by definition, are not
> >ignorant.  There you're just being stubborn, stupid, or something else
> >along those lines.

> Incorrect again Mr. McCoy, there is more than one accepted definition for
> being "ignorant".

Eh, OK.  But I tend to be literal minded, so I read the word in its
classical sense.  On reflection, yes, we do use the word to reflect
thoughtless speech in our society.

> Based on your use of profanity within this thread, I choose not to continue
> communication with you, directly or indirectly. 

This bears explanation, and is why I'm sending this to the digest (sorry). 
What I wrote was something to the effect of:

"I don't care if people call me White, irish, or That Stupid F*** In A BMW
Talking On His Cell Phone While F***ing Going 120 Down The Highway."

The point I was trying to make was that I think it's silly to be bothered by
uncapitalized letters - in fact, I wouldn't be bothered if someone called me
That Stupid ... , which is undeniably worse.  I was trying to make use of a
stereotype that is unjustly applied to many of us: the inattentive yuppie
who doesn't know how to drive.

Whatever.  You jumped all over my use of profanity, despite the fact that I
was applying it to myself.  I hope you never try to read much modern
literature.  (Of course, it's better done in literature.  But it's often
more graphic too.)

> You and I do not agree, and
> I don't believe we will ever agree on these points. 

I hope you don't give up so easily on everything.  Considering that our only
disagreements are on (a) the subject of the message; and (b) whether or not
it's insulting to write "black" instead of "Black," it seems kinda strange
to me that you took such offense at this.

> Continuing this thread
> will prove to be a waste of my time, as well as a waste of bandwidth on
> this digest. I wish you well, and hope that you receive an excellent
> education at Hamilton.

I hope so too.  Disregarding the obvious sarcasm, and passing up a golden
opportunity to start a flame war.

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