Re: in defense of the pantera (w/issues similar to usa alfas)

[George Graves <gmgraves@domain.elided>]

First of all, the Pantera I was talking about WAS 20 years ago. 
Secondly, my reference to Alfas being more like Chevies when compared 
to Panteras applies only to ELECTRICAL gremlins. As in Panteras had a 
lot more of them. I own an Alfa transaxel car and it has 140,000 miles 
on it. I have all the service records on the car from new and its never 
had its rear wheel bearings replaced nor has it needed them.

George Graves



On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 07:35  AM, alfa-digest wrote:


> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:10:17 -0400
> From: dsedon@domain.elided
> Subject: in defense of the pantera (w/issues similar to usa alfas)
>
> hi george,
>
> well, le'see...  panteras here in the usa are mostly ~29-32 years 
> old...  old cars have rust...  pantera rust issues are well-known in 
> the pantera community.  as are their fixes.
>
> as for mechanical/electrical issues, these, too, have been 
> well-documented, & are easy to deal with.  wheel bearing fixes, (the 
> wheel bearing issues remind me a *lot* of my transaxle alfas!), 
> electrical fixes, cooling fixes, you name it.  sorta like keeping an 
> older alfa running...  ;~)  sure, the stock pantera exhaust kept the 
> ~2900-3000lb car's power down to between 266 & 310hp, depending on the 
> year.  thank the feds for that, tho...  and, good luck trying to find 
> a stock exhaust on a running pantera *today*...  :>)
>
> *my* pantera is basically stock, and w/its hedders & modern electronic 
> ignition, and reduced-compression engine (which runs on regular, btw), 
> is prolly making only ~300hp.  but, for the price of a $10k mile 
> service on a ferrari 308, i will have installed a completely built 
> 475hp engine.  'course, i will have to burn premium gas, then...  ;~)  
> my pantera's rust issues have been mostly dealt with, prior to my 
> purchase.  i still need to do the rockers, tho - prolly will become a 
> major issue if not addressed in three years, or so...  i guess that's 
> why i was able to get mine at a relatively reduced price!  :>)  if you 
> spend $25-30k on a pantera today, it will be well-sorted, rust-free, 
> w/lotsa extra goodies - the trick is to find one w/the goodies that 
> appeal to *you*.  i lurked on the pantera digest almost two years, 
> prior to taking the plunge, so i knew what i was getting into.  in the 
> 3.5k years i've had it, i've put ~20k miles on it; many folks only put 
> ~$1k/year on 'em, oth!
> ers use 'em as daily drivers.
>
> and, the pantera community is a bit of a tight community, too - its 
> digest gets about twice the bandwith as the alfa-digest - pretty 
> amazing, considering that only ~7000 de tomaso's were manufactured, 
> most of 'em a single model, the pantera.  also amazing is the fact 
> that there are more vendors for me to find parts from, parts that are 
> on the shelf, for the most part, than there are vendors for my alfas.
>
> so, if ya don't like panteras, that's ok w/me, but please don't go 
> spreading misinformation about 'em.  you had one friend who came to an 
> untimely end in his pantera, and for that, i'm truly sorry.  but, that 
> is not the whole pantera story.  as far as panteras making alfas look 
> like chebbies, i beg to differ - but it's this same kinda misinformed 
> talk about *alfas*, that is one reason why alfa is no longer here in 
> the usa...
>
> doug s.
> =======
>    Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:48:51 -0700
>    From: George Graves <gmgraves@domain.elided>
>    Subject: Re:  New ones....
>
>    Hmmm. Pantera eh? Have you checked the frame member that goes over 
> your
>    head in the roof just behind the seats for rust? The roof insulation
>    holds the water (because Panteras leak) against this structural 
> member
>    and they rot away. Ditto for the member under the front where the
>    suspension pieces attach. Never saw one without tin-worm damage- 
> even
>    here in California. And then there's the 6000 mile rear wheel 
> bearings.
>    No, I didn't leave out a zero. Six THOUSAND mile rear wheel 
> bearings.
>    Most Panteras were poorly made, poorly finished, had electrical
>    problems that make Alfas look like Chevys by comparison, and had an
>    exhaust system which literally suffocated the Ford Cleveland 351- V8
>    which powered them. I'll stick to Alfas, thank you.
>
>    BTW, I had a friend who owned a Pantera once. Used to help him work 
> on
>    it. I loved to drive it, but I never thought it handled particularly
>    well. I must say that the exotic driving position, the Ferrari-like
>    shift gate, and the powerful rear engine were intoxicating, to say 
> the
>    least. What happened to it? The front suspension collapsed (due to 
> the
>    aforementioned front frame member rot) while the owner was driving 
> fast
>    in Nevada and he was killed.
>
>    George Graves
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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