Sunroofs, no bull

["John Hertzman" <johnhertzman@domain.elided>]

I have been spending more time than I should on the sunroof bit, trying to
whittle down documents, testimonies, and logical progressions into something
reasonably concise. It hasn't worked very well yet, so I will try to lay down
a few bare bones and let anyone who is interested enough shuffle the pieces
until they themselves are satisfied. Not my problem, etc.

Cars I know about first-hand: Three of the five Alfetta carcasses I have, a
'78 Sport Sedan, a '79 Sport Sedan, and a '78 coupe, have manual sunroofs
which, except for the different dimensions of the coupe's, are identical both
externally and in the parts hidden by the headliner; my '84 GTV 6 has a
sunroof which is identical with the one in my '78 Alfetta coupe. The sunroof
in our Milano differs in that it is powered and has a 'wind deflector' at the
front which pops up when the sliding panel retracts, which is not present on
any of the Alfetta sunroofs I have.

Documents: The 1978 sale brochures for new US-spec Alfetta coupes and Sport
Sedans list, under the rubric "Optional amenities add to Alfa's appeal", the
"new optional steel sunroof", showing a big photo of the open sunroof,
matching those on the cars I have, with no front flipper. There is nothing
similar in any earlier sales literature I have, from the 1900 on up. The
Alfetta "Short Spare Parts Catalog", or "Catalogo Rapido Ricambi", publication
#2462 published in 1980, shows and lists the parts for a manual sunroof
without the flipper deflector, for the 1978 and later cars, but not for the
first series sedans. Again, there is nothing similar in any 105/115 parts
books I have. Among the "Parts Bulletins" published by ARI's national parts
department, #17/78 scrupulously covers all the sunroof parts for the 1978 cars
pending a later inclusion of the parts in a complete parts book. Again, there
seems to be nothing analogous covering sunroofs on any 105/115 cars. Also, in
ARI's listing of parts catalogs, in addition to the basic catalogs for the
1750 and 2000 cars and the USA Supplements for both, there are additional
supplements covering factory air conditioning parts for the 1972-'74 2000
Berlinas (#2266) and the 1972-'74 2000 GTVs, (#2267) and the early Alfettas
(#2454) but no analogous supplements for any 105/115 sunroofs or any 1750
factory air conditioning.

105/115 cars discussed on the digest either recently or in the March 1996,
AD-2-106 and later discussions of the same topic:

-David Johnson's 1974 GT Veloce, (which is where this started) which came from
the dealer's showroom floor with factory installed air conditioning and an
electric sunroof, and a headliner of VW headliner material rather than Alfa
headliner material;

-Todd Arnow's (ex) Berlina, a 1971 1750 with an electric sunroof and a
headliner of normal Alfa vinyl, which impresses both Todd and Brian Shorey as
very believably 'factory' quality.

-James Tyson does not own but has seen two 73 or 74 GTVs with manually
operated steel sunroofs, not power, that were definitely not installed by an
aftermarket shop.

-Ken Geiger's US Spec 1971 GTV had what was in Canada believed to be a
'factory' steel manual (not power) sliding sun roof with a flip-up air
deflector at the front and a headliner not in the snake bite pattern, but
similar to the material used in his Mercedes 450 SLC.

-John Stapleton, in Australia, did not own but was familiar with a very
original 1974 GTV with a "Genuine Factory" (his quote marks) powered sunroof
with the flip-up wind deflector.

OK, so at least some of the 105/115 cars had the flip-up wind deflectors which
no Alfettas had and which all Milano sunroofs had; Alfa supposedly must have
used them on some or all of the 105-115 sunroof cars but not on the Alfettas
and then returned to them for the Milanos; and both the 1971 cars and the 1974
cars sometimes had manual sunroofs and sometimes had power sunroofs, and
sometimes had headliners in materials which seemed like other Alfas and
sometimes more like various German cars. This is very different from Alfettas
(always manual, always Alfetta headliners) and from Milanos (always power,
always Milano headliners) and 164s (always power, always 164 headliner). OK.
It is a stretch, but OK.

The most critical question, to my mind, is that of documentation. The power
sunroof on David Johnson's car is not working. The problem could be a fuse, or
a switch, or a relay, or a bad ground, or an open circuit, or a bad motor. If
it is the motor, how much is a motor, and are they available? Normally with
any Alfa part for a production car the clerk at the parts counter can look it
up, find the part number, get the price and tell you that it is no longer
available. Perhaps not for every trim piece on a Stradale, but you can look up
something like a windshield-wiper motor for a Sprint Zagato. You want the rear
sliding panel for the Plexiglas door window in an early 750 Sprint Veloce? It
is #149382019. You want the washer fluid reservoir for a 1900 Superleggera
Super Sprint? It is #148386026. Can anybody find the part number for the motor
(or switch, or relay, or drain-tube grommet, etc) for the factory power
sunroof on Todd Arnow's old Berlina? Perhaps, but I can't.

It is often hard to prove a negative. Did Alfa build sunroofs for GTVs for
several years with different combinations of features, without leaving a blip
on the published record? Perhaps. Not my concern, really.

Cheers

John H.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

POST-SCRIPT

Just got back a reply to one of the two queries I sent to some "people who I
think know" who were with ARI in New Jersey in the late sixties and seventies.
The reply is the upper-case inserts in the text of the query I sent. Since he
did not insert a 'YES' or 'NO' where I asked about anonymity versus
attribution, I am leaving it, government style, as "a High Unnamed Source".
The following is what I asked and what he inserted as answers.

Short question. Two different people have come up with early seventies cars (a
1974 GT Veloce and a 1971 1750 Berlina) with power sun roofs ****WHICH MAKE
ROOF???? NO OWNERS MANUAL SUPPLEMENT???? NO LABEL INSIDE THE SLIDE RAILS????
which prior owners said had been on the cars when sold new (in north-west for
the coupe, in New England with the Berlina) and which they believed were
factory equipment. ***NEVER HAPPENED*** I could find nothing on manual factory
sunroofs prior to the second series Alfetta sedans of 1978, and nothing on
power sunroofs before the Milano, although I have little on what the European
models might have had. My parts books cover 1900, 2000, Giulietta, Giulia
Berlinas and coupes, 1750 and 2000, with zero sunroofs. So - the question is
whether either (or both) of you remember factory power sunroofs, ***NO***
factory manual sunroofs, ***N0*** port-installed sunroof conversions ***IN
SOME MARKETS SUCH AS UK, YES THERE WERE*** or dealer-installed sunroof
conversions on US-spec cars in the 1750 and 2000 era. ***YES, USUALLY THROUGH
ONE OF THE AUTHORIZED INSTALLERS, WEBASTO WAS COMMON AS WERE TWO OR THREE
OTHERS, HOWEVER ALL I REMEMBER WERE MANUALLY OPERATED.***  Most of the
sunroofs I have seen or heard about prior to these were either clearly
aftermarket products and/or German "Webasto" sunroofs. CORRECT!!!!!! DEALERS
ALL OVER THE WORLD DID HAVE SUNROOFS INSTALLED, SOLIDS, GLASS, AND I EVEN SAW
SOME FABRICS. NOT UNCOMMON AT ALL.

And if either or both of you do have answers, the remaining question is
whether you are quotable either as an anonymous source or with attribution.

Cheers

John

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