Re: water as greenhouse gas (was: hydrogen no good (NAC))

[bearbvd@domain.elided (Greg Hermann)]

At 12:22 PM 2/24/02, ethan schartman wrote:
>sorry about the NAC, but i'll be brief:
>
>water is a greenhouse gas, but is unimportant because
>the troposhpere (part we breathe and directly
>pollute)is always saturated - i.e. add more water
>vapor and it comes out as rain. as for high atmosphere
>emissions, my understanding is that there would be an
>effect, but planes just aren't putting out enough to
>make it a problem.
>
>-ethan schartman

NONSENSE !!

The place where the water vapor makes it's most serious difference in
warming effect is as high cirrus clouds in the lower stratosphere--which is
also PRECISELY where jet liners dump significant (compared to what mother
nature puts there) quantities of it.

Best (yes, it was peer reviewed!) study I have read on the subject (circa
1970, when the doomsayers were still predicting another ice age, and SOON
!!) predicted that the net effect of the amount of jet liner traffic which
existed at that time would amount to 10 to 14 additional days annually with
high cirrus cloud cover existing over the Great Plains area of North
America. The study I recall did NOT address what the effect might be over
the Pacific Basin or the North Atlantic.

If you have ever lived in a mountain valley (>5000 feet MSL elevation)
(1500 meters for the metrologically challenged), you would know that a calm
winter night at high altitude, with high cirrus cloud cover, will typically
be about 300 F  (180C) warmer than a dead clear night. If this isn't a
greenhouse effect, I would be interested to know what IS !!

I would also note that, here at home, (elev. 7250' MSL) (2200 m.) the trees
typically bud out 3 weeks earlier in the year than they did 25 years ago,
and tend to turn about 2 weeks later.

CO2 is virtually irrelevant to our climate compared to high altitude (lower
stratospheric) H2O !! Believe it !! The only thing folks who say we need
to control CO2 emissions are REALLY interested in is controlling YOU (along
with anyone else foolish enough to believe their carp) !!

Greg

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